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Problems Galore

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Re: Problems Galore

Postby IvenBach » March 20th, 2013, 3:27 pm

These are all part of my learning process. Here's the photos I took earlier.
Image

Entirely too simple Chaos Warrior with highlighted studs.
Image

Good bad turnout. I liked Sjeng's results and blatantly copied. The bad right one was painted in the red that was used for highlights on the good one. The bad highlights were an orange and when it was dipped failure resulted.
Image

Bad Closeup
Image

Good Closeup
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Worried Wizard - Still needs some minor work and then varnish
Image

Mummies - In full light they look decent but in average light they don't look too good.
Image

Dipped Orc vs Non-Dipped
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Bad turnout example
Image

Skelly Second Batch
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Skelly 1st Batch
Image

If you were able to make it to the end of that train wreck you have dedication. Any suggestions? http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/IvenBach/library/ For all the photos I took. I'll work on descriptions and whatnot during the weekend.
Last edited by IvenBach on August 19th, 2013, 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby Sjeng » March 20th, 2013, 5:11 pm

IvenBach wrote:Worried Wizard - Still needs some minor work and then varnish
Image

oh, my Goddess, dude, seriously, I'm going to tell you this, and please read my comment and take my advice:

This wizard looks really good painted like this. I mean it. You did a good job basecoating it, nice colours, good detail. DO NOT USE YOUR WOOD-LACQUERING PAINT ON THIS ONE!
Do us all a big favour and either: use washes from citadel or any other miniature wargame company and apply that with a brush, carefully. Or buy some Army painted Quickshade (I'd go for light or medium for humans/orcs but the dark tone works well too if applied sparingly) and test-dip another mini first, so you know how it works, and then use it on this one. I'm telling you, it will look amazing! It will add ALL the shading you need to make it look fantastic. Just finish the base before you dip ;)
PS: the wizard is wearing a ring on his raised hand, did you notice that?

Read up on how to use quickshade and/or washes. It's really easy. please don't torture any more minis with that wood paint anymore :bites-lip:
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Re: Problems Galore

Postby IvenBach » March 20th, 2013, 8:34 pm

I'm not sure how to respond :? . I was actually thinking about stripping the wizard down and trying again. I just took a photo as it's the only 'hero' that I've done and needed some kind for comparison. I think by basecoat you mean the paint I put on. It didn't come out at well as I wanted and this was the mini that I had problems with the paint running. You can see it on his cape where it ran onto his pants. The same goes for the blue onto his gloves that spilled onto the white. I'll have to get some better photos of it. As for the ring, after you mentioned it I do remember seeing someone that had painted theirs but didn't take the time to do it as I have had it aside for a couple weeks now in favor of others. I just looked at the card for the wizard and copied.

As for the other pics I have do you have any suggestions? I know that the varnish on a few of them is thicker than it should be. The best example I can think of would be the Dipped/Non Orcs compared to the skeletons. The Orcs were done after and show as the coating is a lot thinner. I use a brush on varnish which will be naturally thicker than a spray on.


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby wolfie907 » March 22nd, 2013, 6:03 pm

try inks


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby bruenor » March 22nd, 2013, 7:41 pm

To be honest, I'm not a fan of Quickshade or any other dipping type substances.
Yes they are quick, and they produce some ok results, but feel they are aimed more for large armies, that look good at tabletop level, and not under close scrutiny like the HQ gaming pieces would be.
Plus I feel they take away the enjoyment of sitting down and painting the whole miniature, from start to finish.

I'm not knocking anyone who uses it, and have seen some good results here, yes I'm looking at you Sjeng, I just find nothing more satisfying, than looking at a completed piece knowing that it's all you.

Now onto budding new painters.
Yes it's hard, & no there aren't any perfect shortcuts
Oh my word for gods sake get some decent acrylic paints and sable brushes (Games Workshop, PP3, Coat D'Arms, Foundry, Vallejo, all good paints) Stay away from wood paints and Apple Barrel.

Thin your paints slightly, water is fine, don't waste money on flow enhancers, remember you're a novice.

Practice. Find minis you don't need/want and practice techniques on them, even strip them and re use if you like, but practice eventually makes perfect, but don't expect miracles overnight.

Take your time. Don't rush, ever. All you'll end up with is a poor paintjob. Take your time, and clean any areas you might have strayed onto whilst painting another part of the mini.
Which leads us to;
Keep it neat. Better to have a neat painted miniature, unshaded but with all the colours inside the areas you've decided they should be, than having a messy slopped on partially shaded miniature.

Take breaks. Nothing is more tiring on the eyes than close up painting.

Shading. Personally I find Games Workshops range of shading washes invaluable, they are designed to do exactly this job.

Highlighting. Try to mix lighter shades of your base colour or use one thats premixed nearest to the next step in lightness, also stay away from using white to lighten, and black to darken. Try something like Bleached Bone instead of white to lighten colours, and a grey or brown to darken. Gives a smoother less harsh level of highlighing.

Above all else have fun and go wild with your colour choices, after all they are Fantasy miniatures, not real people/animals, painting anything you like in any colour and say PFFFfffTTttttt!!!!! to the naysayers that stick to the rules that an Orc has to be green.

Sorry if any of this sounds preachy, but stick to these simple rules and you'll be flashing off showy minis in no time. :D 8-)

The Wizard looks ok to me, needs a little tidying up in places but perfectly useable as is.
The Mummys would benefit from a nice light coloured drybrush, as would the Skeletons.

Here's a quick example;
Image
These two Orcs were painted around 10 years ago as an example to a guy who wanted his set painting but didn't want to pay for the best of the best painting levels.
So I showed him this pic, the one on the left has been painted and shaded, and one highlight, the one on the right is unshaded base colours only.
To be honest I think a full set painted either way would look great, just notice the neatness.
I think that's what makes them look better in my humble opinion.


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby IvenBach » March 22nd, 2013, 11:54 pm

bruenor wrote:Oh my word for gods sake get some decent acrylic paints and sable brushes (Games Workshop, PP3, Coat D'Arms, Foundry, Vallejo, all good paints) Stay away from wood paints and Apple Barrel.

As it is right now it seems like this Apple Barrel paint would be a step up from what I'm using. I have the mighty brand of 'Craft Smart' (http://www.michaels.com/Craft-Smart-Acrylic-Paint-2oz/cp0396,default,pd.html) and with that what you've seen the quality I've been able to achieve. I'll gradually pick up more but am determined to get my moneys worth out of my budget paints!

Image
Image
Above are the brushes that I use. The very 1st brushes I bought (not shown) were synthetic and I don't even want to use them for a primary base coat. The second (yellow ferrule) and third brushes (black ferrule) I bought are the ones I'm using now. They are 3/0, 0, 3, and 5 I believe. I have come to really enjoy using the black ferrule size 0 brush for a lot of the detail work. I have a 3/0 5/0 and 10/0 but I still seem to get better results with the size 0 for now. I'll just save the smaller ones for a later time when I'm hopefully better and can use them adequately. I take care of the tips and always recover them with the plastic protector after washing them out and reforming the tips.

I bought the acrylic thinner and at the rate I'm going wont have to buy another for 10+ years. It does a better job than water did for me and I'll end up using it till its gone. I started with straight paint and didn't get the results I liked. Now that I thin them down, some more than others, they perform a lot better and I realize that using 2,3,4+ (darn you yellow) coats will yield results far superior to just 1 thick coat. That leads me to your next comment about time/patience. Very small short strokes with just the tip have kept me from straying onto areas that I don't want to do. I still occasionally make a brushing mistake but fewer than when I started.

I have tried dry brushing and its completely foreign to me. Never can seem to get it right. I've read up on how to do it and it should be extremely simple but it still eludes me, somehow. I'm working on the bases for the doors right now and will practice on those for more drybrushing. I decided that wooden doors will be brown, trapped doors will be red, reinforced doors will be reinforced with bars (silver strips), etc... as I use my HQ minis for D&D also.

I agree with you that neatness (quality) > quantity. This may turn a few people against me but I am using these minis as my starting and testing minis to get a better feel for painting. On the horrendous ones I'll strip and redo but I will probably end up keeping most of them to remind me of progress I've made. I know I'll never have anything of tournament winning caliber but I'm going for the best I can do and as long as it makes me proud of what I've done, and a few others, I'll be happy.

PS - By all means I want suggestions and constructive criticism. That's the reason why I'm posting here. I can ignore any excessive preaching or blatant bias if there's good information within it.


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby wolfie907 » March 23rd, 2013, 3:23 am

mini wargaming is going out of business in thier vault for free you can download like 90 tutorial videos for free you can find them on youtube


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby bruenor » March 23rd, 2013, 5:25 am

Sadly if you continue to use budget paints, you'll continue to get budget results, sorry.

The paints I mentioned before are specifically designed for miniature painting and please believe me they will make your painting sooooo much easier, as you mention the multiple layers for yellow and others. Citadel paints (Games Workshop), now do what they call a base colour range, (formally known as Foundation paints) as part of their whole paint range, and they take colours like yellows, and reds, and give you a paint that will cover even black undercoats in one go without being too thick that it obscures the details.
Now that is value for money in my book, as it saves time and effort.
Drybrushing can be a bit iffy the first few times you do it, best thing I've found is to have a crap mini you can try the brush once you have your paint on, so you get the feel for how much paint to leave on the brush.
If nothing else, I can't recommend enough the Games Workshop, How to paint Citadel Miniatures books, the current one is quite pricey at £30 (with dvd), so I'd probably give that one a miss, but the previous ones with the blue cover and 4-5 different miniatures displayed on the front go on Ebay for a few ££'s, very cheaply.
They are jam packed with hints and tips, even for the more experienced painters, as well as novices.
Up to this expensive current one I have bought them all and often refer back to an example in there if I'm not getting a result I want, even now and I've been painting well over 15 years on and off.

Those brushes don't look too bad at all, try and keep the points sharp, by either running them between your lips (not recommended if your paints aren't non toxic, or wetting them and running them through your crease in your palm or thumb and forefinger.
Put one aside for drybrushing only as it will eventually ruin the brush.

Stick at it mate and it can only get better. :D


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby Miksang » March 23rd, 2013, 10:29 am

Is it just me or are these miniature paint sets extremely expensive? Or am I looking up the wrong ones... :|
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Re: Problems Galore

Postby Sjeng » March 23rd, 2013, 12:01 pm

usually a bottle of paint is about €2,- to €3,-. Citadel is the most expensive at €3,- a pop. But their paints are good. Vallejo is good too, and Reaper's paints are great as well. Deals with multiple paints in one set (and sometimes some minis added for practice) are usually higher value, so it's a good idea to look around. You'll end up buying a lot of colours anyway, trust me :P
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