secret doors

[ken]

It has been suggested on another HQ site that secret doors are found if the map symbol is on the other side of a searched wall, ie; Barak Tor-Barrow of the Witch Lord, the top room, centre left, empty room, there is a secret door symbol in the centre corridor, which should be shown if that room is searched. Me, I don't agree.

[Ethica]

I can see how realistically the signs of a secret door might be more visible on one side of a wall than the other. But purely for the sake of not annoying my players too much I wouldn't introduce that rule either.

[torilen]

HAHAHAHAHA (sadistic, scared laughter echoes)

I never really thought about having some rule where the secret door is more visible on one side of the wall
than it is on the other side of the wall. Yikes.

[el_flesh]

You could include it within rolling-for-search rules if you want; more success ratio on one side than the other. Some DMs will remember to make it a more leading statement: "in the hall before you, you notice something about the wall seems not quite right.."

[ken]

Thanks for your inputs. As far as I can see, the only way to get all the heroes past that centre room, is for one to have Pass Through Rock cast on them, either in that room, or right round to the block in the RH passage, then he must find that secret door, in the centre passage. Am I missing something?

[drathe]

Secret doors are found when searching on either side of the wall. Although the idea that it can only be found on the side of the wall that the icon opens to sounds interesting, it isn't ideal. It seems the secret door icons in most quests are placed opening into the most likely direction of travel. Sometimes they are placed where they are easily see among a clutter of other icons.

When making Quests myself, I often have them open in the direction of travel unless there are too many icons on that side of the wall already. It there are room tiles on the map, I usually have the door open away from the room so the icon isn't lost in the clutter.

[ken]

It seems the secret door icons in most quests are placed opening into the most likely direction of travel. said drathe, this makes the most sense to me. Perhaps there should have been a symbol that straddles the wall, like a normal door symbol?

[Daedalus]

A secret door tile that straddled the wall equally would clear up the confusion of where it was located- namely, on the wall. The European rules state that a secret doors are found by a search on either side of the wall in which they are placed. drathe's interpretation is directly supported by this.

The wording of the rules is a bit stranger in the NA Instruction Booklet. Having not read the thread of the other site, I'm making an assumption that your disagreement is based on the NA rules. That booklet states: "...Zargon will then disclose any secret doors located in the room or corridor that you are in by placing a secret door tile on the gameboard square where the secret door is located...." That would place the secret door tile on a square in the corridor beyond the empty room, as indicated by the Quest map. As that square is the location of the secret door, it stands to reason that the location of the secret door must be found from the corridor, not the empty room.

The next paragraph states: "The door is not considered OPEN until you move adjacent to it and declare that you are opening it...." No real problem there. A Hero could be adjacent to a secret door square on the other side of a wall, and thus open the door. Finding it is the issue.

Unlike the 'flow' of secret doors in a Quest that open in the direction of likely travel by the Heroes, I think the wording of the rule is counter-intuitive. It could have stated things better: "...Zargon will then disclose any secret doors located in the room or corridor that you are in by placing a secret door tile on the gameboard square that is on the opposite side of the wall where the secret door is located...." That would allow for the location of the secret door to be in the empty room, while being marked in the corridor by a secret-door tile. As things stand, it's up to the players to figure out/accept that the secret door is located on both sides of the wall where the tile is.

Of course, drathe's simple interpretation is best, as the rules weren't worded effectively. My own group years before came to the same interpretation, which we recognized was more workable. Also, sometimes it is more convenient to place a secret door on a less-cluttered side of a wall.

That all being said, I think it would be cool to have some secret doors found normally or more easily from one side, while the 'back' side could be harder to locate. A house rule or Quest notes could cover such special cases easily.

[sadkitchen]

We always played that a secret door could be found by searching in a room or corridor that the secret door connected to. (I believe that this is the consensus)
Though there are a couple of quests with notes stating 'This Secret Door can only be found by a Hero in room X'.
Now that I think of it, the aforementioned quest notes might have only been in Home Made Quests.
But regardless, I'm sure that I have seen at least 1 stand alone room where the secret door was on the inside, thus if following the rule found by Ken, you wouldn't be able to enter it.

Whomever came up with that rule needs to lay off the wacky tobacky.

-SadKitchen

[ken]

"The European rules state that a secret doors are found by a search on either side of the wall in which they are placed."
Sorry to be pedantic, but I can't find this statement in my rule book, which I assume is European, UK, what page is it on? My book, page 12 says " A whole room or all visible squares of a passage may be searched in one turn. Players may search for either secret doors & traps or Treasure. Cannot see anything about "either side of the wall" Too early for