Defending against the Orc's Bane

[drathe]

Yeah, I remember thinking, "Why wasn't it made to be effective against Goblins, too?" Another thing, it wasn't awarded until the end of the first 14 Quests, so it really didn't see much use until Kellar's Keep. It should have had a showcase Quest, such as Lair of the Orc Warlord.

It appears in Quest 11 for both the American and European systems. But by that time most heroes already have better equipment from the armoury. That's why we play it as second attack is not defend-able unless the first missed, or can attack two adjacent Orcs. My group still used it once or twice in KK when they remembered they had it.

[knightkrawler]

I imagine when the heroes are all beefed up equipment-wise, Orc's Bane is still more than welcome as a second weapon.
You know, Dwarf uses battle-axe (4 AD) and carries Orc's Bane as backup.
Think "Rust" spell here.

[Fullork345]

Doesn't Rust only work on swoards and helments though?

[Goblin-King]

I think most players allow rust to be used on any metal equipment. Swords, axes, helmets, shields, armors and even the metal artifacts!

[knightkrawler]

Nope. Not me.
Not the artifacts. They are magically enhanced, unique... artifacts indestructible by a petty Rust spell.
Another perk to them... I want to encourage the heroes to keep them, or else the dwarf is going to carry TWO battle-axes, one as backup, PLUS a crossbow.
Maxing out on gold and equipment is easy like we've discussed so often.

But all equipment in part or completely metal is rendered useless by Rust (the toolkit, too, by the way).
In my rules, at least.

[Daedalus]

Doesn't Rust only work on swoards and helments though?

North American rules, Chaos spell: Yes--it affects one metal sword or helmet.
European rules, WoM High Mage spell: No--it affects one item of metal equipment.

Since the EU spell doesn't specifically prohibit special Quest treasures, it could be interpreted that Orcs Bane (a Quest treasure) which has the descriptor "WEAPON" is also considered equipment. However, equipment isn't clearly defined in the EU rules (though it is mentioned under Buying Equipment on p.14). As Orcs Bane has a special property, it could be argued that is isn't merely equipment, and thus can't be affected by the Rust spell.

[Redav]

So, I was looking for something else (Heroic Brew) and this thread popped up and it's a similar situation so I figured I'd chime in. People may house rule till their heart's content, I'm not knocking that however when it comes to the rules as published, there's interpretations here that are a bit of a stretch so here's my take on it as written.

Both EU and NA rules play the same where Orcs Bane allows you to attack one orc twice and the orc may defend on both occasions. This is because the EU rules state that combat is attack and defence while the NA rules say that if a monster is hit, it immediately defends.

As for the wording on the card;
EU card - it may seem ambiguous however it's simply a general statement for when you're fighting against orcs in the plural, not picking on two orcs at once
NA card - is quite clear. You may attack twice if attacking an orc. An = A = One. You may attack twice if attacking one orc

As for the multiple attacks clarification in the BQP, it only relates to the hero and only when playing the BQP

One thing I don't get is how people say that the orc doesn't get a chance to defend against the second attack. I find no evidence of this written in the rule books. That said, this is what I would probably include as a house rule to make the Orcs Bane a more attractive weapon. I think that makes it more worth of having Bane in its name. I guess the designers intent is that it's simply a short sword (i.e. it doesn't increase the attack role) however it gives a special ability over orcs - a second chance to attack. As people have pointed out in other threads, other abilities are a way of upgrading a weapon instead of making it cheaper or adding more attack dice.

[knightkrawler]

NA card - is quite clear. You may attack twice if attacking an orc. An = A = One. You may attack twice if attacking one orc

I don't think this is exactly true. "An/a" does not mean necessarily "one". It means you can legitly read that sentence this way:
"You may attack twice if attacking an orc (in each of the two instances)."

I simply think that the card creator might have had the meaning you suggested in mind when writing it, but just didn't have us nerds and geeks in the back of his head.
Many many things about HQ were done sloppily, mind you.

[JasonMCM]

Never even considered that you could not attack 2 different orcs with this.

Moving on to the BQP rules for defending. Not being able to roll defense dice against the second attack doesn't mean that you cannot defend against it. Take the following example (using the Orc's Bane attacking the same orc twice.)

Hero's first attack

Orc's defensive roll

Hero's second attack


Results
After 1st attack the orc has taken no damage and has 1 in reserve for any additional attacks made by that hero. After the 2nd attack the orc still has taken no damage, but has no in reserve (Just in case the hero can magically attack a third time somehow).

I would actually reword the card to something like this.

Orc's Bane
When using this magical shortsword,
you roll two combat dice to attack
non orc monsters. When attacking
orcs you may either roll four combat
dice against a single orc or make
two attacks rolling two combat dice
each against two orcs that are both
adjacent to you. May not be used
by Wizard.

Just my thoughts on the topic.
-JasonMCM

[Redav]

Has the orc just left his weapon up in the hope you hit it?