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Problems Galore

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Re: Problems Galore

Postby bruenor » March 22nd, 2013, 7:41 pm

To be honest, I'm not a fan of Quickshade or any other dipping type substances.
Yes they are quick, and they produce some ok results, but feel they are aimed more for large armies, that look good at tabletop level, and not under close scrutiny like the HQ gaming pieces would be.
Plus I feel they take away the enjoyment of sitting down and painting the whole miniature, from start to finish.

I'm not knocking anyone who uses it, and have seen some good results here, yes I'm looking at you Sjeng, I just find nothing more satisfying, than looking at a completed piece knowing that it's all you.

Now onto budding new painters.
Yes it's hard, & no there aren't any perfect shortcuts
Oh my word for gods sake get some decent acrylic paints and sable brushes (Games Workshop, PP3, Coat D'Arms, Foundry, Vallejo, all good paints) Stay away from wood paints and Apple Barrel.

Thin your paints slightly, water is fine, don't waste money on flow enhancers, remember you're a novice.

Practice. Find minis you don't need/want and practice techniques on them, even strip them and re use if you like, but practice eventually makes perfect, but don't expect miracles overnight.

Take your time. Don't rush, ever. All you'll end up with is a poor paintjob. Take your time, and clean any areas you might have strayed onto whilst painting another part of the mini.
Which leads us to;
Keep it neat. Better to have a neat painted miniature, unshaded but with all the colours inside the areas you've decided they should be, than having a messy slopped on partially shaded miniature.

Take breaks. Nothing is more tiring on the eyes than close up painting.

Shading. Personally I find Games Workshops range of shading washes invaluable, they are designed to do exactly this job.

Highlighting. Try to mix lighter shades of your base colour or use one thats premixed nearest to the next step in lightness, also stay away from using white to lighten, and black to darken. Try something like Bleached Bone instead of white to lighten colours, and a grey or brown to darken. Gives a smoother less harsh level of highlighing.

Above all else have fun and go wild with your colour choices, after all they are Fantasy miniatures, not real people/animals, painting anything you like in any colour and say PFFFfffTTttttt!!!!! to the naysayers that stick to the rules that an Orc has to be green.

Sorry if any of this sounds preachy, but stick to these simple rules and you'll be flashing off showy minis in no time. :D 8-)

The Wizard looks ok to me, needs a little tidying up in places but perfectly useable as is.
The Mummys would benefit from a nice light coloured drybrush, as would the Skeletons.

Here's a quick example;
Image
These two Orcs were painted around 10 years ago as an example to a guy who wanted his set painting but didn't want to pay for the best of the best painting levels.
So I showed him this pic, the one on the left has been painted and shaded, and one highlight, the one on the right is unshaded base colours only.
To be honest I think a full set painted either way would look great, just notice the neatness.
I think that's what makes them look better in my humble opinion.


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby IvenBach » March 22nd, 2013, 11:54 pm

bruenor wrote:Oh my word for gods sake get some decent acrylic paints and sable brushes (Games Workshop, PP3, Coat D'Arms, Foundry, Vallejo, all good paints) Stay away from wood paints and Apple Barrel.

As it is right now it seems like this Apple Barrel paint would be a step up from what I'm using. I have the mighty brand of 'Craft Smart' (http://www.michaels.com/Craft-Smart-Acrylic-Paint-2oz/cp0396,default,pd.html) and with that what you've seen the quality I've been able to achieve. I'll gradually pick up more but am determined to get my moneys worth out of my budget paints!

Image
Image
Above are the brushes that I use. The very 1st brushes I bought (not shown) were synthetic and I don't even want to use them for a primary base coat. The second (yellow ferrule) and third brushes (black ferrule) I bought are the ones I'm using now. They are 3/0, 0, 3, and 5 I believe. I have come to really enjoy using the black ferrule size 0 brush for a lot of the detail work. I have a 3/0 5/0 and 10/0 but I still seem to get better results with the size 0 for now. I'll just save the smaller ones for a later time when I'm hopefully better and can use them adequately. I take care of the tips and always recover them with the plastic protector after washing them out and reforming the tips.

I bought the acrylic thinner and at the rate I'm going wont have to buy another for 10+ years. It does a better job than water did for me and I'll end up using it till its gone. I started with straight paint and didn't get the results I liked. Now that I thin them down, some more than others, they perform a lot better and I realize that using 2,3,4+ (darn you yellow) coats will yield results far superior to just 1 thick coat. That leads me to your next comment about time/patience. Very small short strokes with just the tip have kept me from straying onto areas that I don't want to do. I still occasionally make a brushing mistake but fewer than when I started.

I have tried dry brushing and its completely foreign to me. Never can seem to get it right. I've read up on how to do it and it should be extremely simple but it still eludes me, somehow. I'm working on the bases for the doors right now and will practice on those for more drybrushing. I decided that wooden doors will be brown, trapped doors will be red, reinforced doors will be reinforced with bars (silver strips), etc... as I use my HQ minis for D&D also.

I agree with you that neatness (quality) > quantity. This may turn a few people against me but I am using these minis as my starting and testing minis to get a better feel for painting. On the horrendous ones I'll strip and redo but I will probably end up keeping most of them to remind me of progress I've made. I know I'll never have anything of tournament winning caliber but I'm going for the best I can do and as long as it makes me proud of what I've done, and a few others, I'll be happy.

PS - By all means I want suggestions and constructive criticism. That's the reason why I'm posting here. I can ignore any excessive preaching or blatant bias if there's good information within it.


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby wolfie907 » March 23rd, 2013, 3:23 am

mini wargaming is going out of business in thier vault for free you can download like 90 tutorial videos for free you can find them on youtube


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby bruenor » March 23rd, 2013, 5:25 am

Sadly if you continue to use budget paints, you'll continue to get budget results, sorry.

The paints I mentioned before are specifically designed for miniature painting and please believe me they will make your painting sooooo much easier, as you mention the multiple layers for yellow and others. Citadel paints (Games Workshop), now do what they call a base colour range, (formally known as Foundation paints) as part of their whole paint range, and they take colours like yellows, and reds, and give you a paint that will cover even black undercoats in one go without being too thick that it obscures the details.
Now that is value for money in my book, as it saves time and effort.
Drybrushing can be a bit iffy the first few times you do it, best thing I've found is to have a crap mini you can try the brush once you have your paint on, so you get the feel for how much paint to leave on the brush.
If nothing else, I can't recommend enough the Games Workshop, How to paint Citadel Miniatures books, the current one is quite pricey at £30 (with dvd), so I'd probably give that one a miss, but the previous ones with the blue cover and 4-5 different miniatures displayed on the front go on Ebay for a few ££'s, very cheaply.
They are jam packed with hints and tips, even for the more experienced painters, as well as novices.
Up to this expensive current one I have bought them all and often refer back to an example in there if I'm not getting a result I want, even now and I've been painting well over 15 years on and off.

Those brushes don't look too bad at all, try and keep the points sharp, by either running them between your lips (not recommended if your paints aren't non toxic, or wetting them and running them through your crease in your palm or thumb and forefinger.
Put one aside for drybrushing only as it will eventually ruin the brush.

Stick at it mate and it can only get better. :D


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby Miksang » March 23rd, 2013, 10:29 am

Is it just me or are these miniature paint sets extremely expensive? Or am I looking up the wrong ones... :|
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Re: Problems Galore

Postby Sjeng » March 23rd, 2013, 12:01 pm

usually a bottle of paint is about €2,- to €3,-. Citadel is the most expensive at €3,- a pop. But their paints are good. Vallejo is good too, and Reaper's paints are great as well. Deals with multiple paints in one set (and sometimes some minis added for practice) are usually higher value, so it's a good idea to look around. You'll end up buying a lot of colours anyway, trust me :P
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Re: Problems Galore

Postby Goblin-King » March 23rd, 2013, 2:59 pm

I've tried painting minis using only ~8 base colors and I've tried using 20+ colors. Both have it's charm, but I'd recommend having lots of colors.
If you only paint a few minis or rarely find the time I'd say pick 8 base colors, as they have a tendency to dry out if you are too long to use it up.


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby drathe » March 23rd, 2013, 4:39 pm

wolfie907 wrote:mini wargaming is going out of business in thier vault for free you can download like 90 tutorial videos for free you can find them on youtube

It's sad. :( Matt, Dave and Dan are great people who have done a lot for my local gaming community. A lot for the online community too. The only positive from their situation is Dave might have more time to play some HeroQuest with my group. He plays a great Wizard. :D But it's not enough of a positive. We will only have one place left in the Niagara Region to buy and play miniature games. :(
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Re: Problems Galore

Postby IvenBach » March 23rd, 2013, 6:06 pm

bruenor wrote:Sadly if you continue to use budget paints, you'll continue to get budget results, sorry.

No need to be sorry. The ones that I've gotten have been good, well except for yellow. I realize that I'll need better paints to progress to a lot better results, and I'll make the transition as I can afford it.

Thanks for the heads up on that video notice. Those will really come in handy. I look forward to watching them. As for the miniwargaming store anything I've seen from them was good and seems like they were good guys. I've not bought anything from GW but from reviews and apparent past history it doesn't paint a pretty picture of the company. I'll get some painting in with spring break as I tear out and redo the bathroom. I can dream about any money left over will go to my mini buying budget.


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Re: Problems Galore

Postby IvenBach » April 6th, 2013, 12:48 am

drathe wrote:
wolfie907 wrote:mini wargaming is going out of business in thier vault for free you can download like 90 tutorial videos for free you can find them on youtube

It's sad. :( Matt, Dave and Dan are great people who have done a lot for my local gaming community. A lot for the online community too. The only positive from their situation is Dave might have more time to play some HeroQuest with my group. He plays a great Wizard. :D But it's not enough of a positive. We will only have one place left in the Niagara Region to buy and play miniature games. :(

I got in on one of the video grabs and downloaded everything that interested me. I finally had time to watch through a couple and it's great stuff. Looking forward to finishing the remodel project I have going in favor of spending that time on my minis. I'll be sure to watch them all and try what I learn on my next mini I'll start on.


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